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Ladies, Please (Carry On Being Awesome)

So I was walking home from the new Star Trek movie, which I have previously indicated I found to be awesome. I was pretty surprised by this, as the Star Trek TV shows had not caught my fancy, and expressed this surprise to my friend, who was a fan of the TV show.

SARAH: But now I see I was TERRIBLY WRONG.
GASTON: Great!
SARAH: I'll watch the series now!
GASTON: Cool, we'll have a Star Trek weekend.
PASSERSBY: judge us for these words
SARAH: Sounds good! And I will watch the greatest love story of all time unfold over many episodes.
GASTON: What? Which love story do you mean?
SARAH: The love story of (highlight to see a spoiler from the movie) Spock and Uhura, of course!
GASTON: Weeeell... about that... it didn't so much actually happen as... not happen...
SARAH: That's it, Star Trek weekend is off!
PASSERSBY: judge us for these words

Feeling betrayed that I had been robbed of the awesomeness I was imagining, I decided to go in search of awesomeness on the internet. Surely, I would find much love there!

I did not see much love for Uhura, who I thought was a clearly brilliant and fabulous character. Even in the comments to my parody, people seemed against or indifferent to her.

Of course, I searched and did find love for her, and indeed here is a really great collection of Uhura thoughts, with a spotlight on race and feminism.

But my search made me think some more about fictional ladies, and an audience's approach to them. Now, I have already gone over my thoughts on how girls in fiction are starting out from a tricky place, given that the traditional way women were written is problematic, and you can also go too far in the opposite direction.

But there's another question, and that's the audience: I do think all of us tend to be harder on women, even if the women in question are awesome. This is totally natural - the society we live in has plenty of issues about the ladies, and sometimes we don't even know we're being influenced.

So without further ado, and with Wuthering Heights, Jane Eyre, Little Women, Harry Potter, my own book because responses to it made me think about these issues, A Great and Terrible Beauty, Dickens, Ilona Andrews and doubtless others mentioned, plus mangled song lyrics because... I may be crazy.

Ladies, Please Carry On Being Awesome - Girls and The Audience's GazeCollapse )



( 561 comments — Leave a comment )
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Aug. 26th, 2009 11:16 am (UTC)
Thank you thank for saying this and saying it with such charm and grace!
Jan. 4th, 2010 12:21 am (UTC)
Icon love.
(no subject) - black_samvara - Jan. 4th, 2010 12:30 am (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 26th, 2009 01:56 pm (UTC)
never thought of it this way...
I'm 8 chapters into a book I've been writing that kind of a twist on the "magical girl" stories you see in Japan. Instead of there being a female hero surrounded by other female heroes, I have a male hero surrounded by other male heroes.

I'm a woman and am usually in tune to these sorts of things. The double standards in stories always bug me and I don't like to see just one awesome female, I like to see a variety of different awesome characters with their own real life issues. Mainly I'm the type of person that finds the secondary characters just as interesting in a book, if not more, than the hero and villain.

So after reading your journal, which I was linked to by someone in YG, it struck me what you said, "It makes me feel icky: it makes me think the people who made the show don't like ladies, or the people who enjoy the show don't like them." and I don't want people reading my story thinking I don't like women or that I don't enjoy a story with women. In fact I realize now how under represented women are in my story. Right now there is one main female who my hero likes but she is dating another guy who my hero happens to hate. There are other supporting females in my story but they are not likable. They aren't awesome. In fact they are quite annoying.

Do you think it'd be enough if the main female had a best friend who was more likable. I don't want to fail the Bechdel Test ^^ I never heard of that before. Also, what if my main hero character, instead of just having a male best friend, also had a female friend too? I consider myself a novice writer so I would appreciate your opinion.

Thank you
Aug. 26th, 2009 02:48 pm (UTC)
Not the OP, but that's never stopped me before
Why not genderswitch a character or two? Or let a Mom or two take a greater role-- there totally need to be more female mentors in fiction anyway, and the world needs a good female Iroh-type or two.

And I'd take a good look at your supporting females and decide why they're not likeable and if they have to be unlikeable. I bet they don't. I think any story's stronger for giving the side characters real personalities (not saying you haven't) and places they're coming from.
Re: Not the OP, but that's never stopped me before - (Anonymous) - Aug. 26th, 2009 11:33 pm (UTC) - Expand
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Re: never thought of it this way... - dharma_slut - Aug. 26th, 2009 07:28 pm (UTC) - Expand
Re: never thought of it this way... - yumeko82 - Aug. 26th, 2009 11:39 pm (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 26th, 2009 02:08 pm (UTC)
With six pages of comments, I'm pretty sure that everything has been covered other than "Dang, this was a fantastic piece of writining! I love the conversational, happy tone; I love the substance and how the points are laid out, and now I want to friend you, read more of what your writing, and hopefully find the books which you have written!" So I'll say that.

(Uhura/Spock 4evar!)
Aug. 26th, 2009 02:50 pm (UTC)
Here from metafandom and this essay is awesome. And yes:

The femme fatales, the ninja ladies, the shy girls, the chatterboxes, the ones several guys wanted, the ones none of the guys wanted, the heroines, the sassy sidekicks, the girl the hero fell in love with in one episode we never saw again, the girl who wanted a guy she didn't get, the girl who was with a ton of different guys, the girl who was devoted to her job, the girl who was into other ladies, the murder victim, the tomboy, the feisty redhead, the dumb blonde. There was never anything wrong with any of them.

I'm writing a (fanfiction) story right now with the canon's 'dumb blonde,' and I always keep in mind that part of her charm is that...well, she's not dumb exactly, but she's never going to be the smartest girl in the room. And that's okay. Because she's awesome.
Aug. 26th, 2009 02:50 pm (UTC)
Oh, fabulous post. <3
Aug. 26th, 2009 02:51 pm (UTC)

I love his books. I love them to death. But _Can You Forgive Her?_ and _The Eustace Diamonds_ made me grind my teeth. And he's got Weird Stuff with love and marriage, he's not intenrally consistent -- it's okay to marry for money, but only when you're already wealthy, otherwise you are a CAD or a GOLD-DIGGER and god help you. And it's okay to marry for love, but only if you're also marrying for money, sort of.

also your book was fantastic. I frog-marched my baby cousins to Chapters and handed them a copy and shepherded them into the line. THey are but the first of many.
Aug. 26th, 2009 07:48 pm (UTC)
*beams* Thank you for frog-marching! And I am so pleased you liked it.

And there was the whole mess with Lily Dale! I was just glad he let Emily marry Arthur in The Prime Minister rather than just writing her off as besmirched! And yet, oh Anthony Trollope I love you, and someone who wrote Lucy and Glencora must like and understand women on some level, and yet... Oh Anthony.
Aug. 26th, 2009 03:02 pm (UTC)
Ok, so I know this noothing to do with ur post but I just wanted u to know that I've been reading this LJ for over a year now, and I love all your fan fiction, and I've been waiting so much for your book! And when it finally came out I was sooo broke, and only got money like last week and got it home yesterday and finished around midnight and I LOVED IT! I seriously CAN'T WAIT (yes, i like caps lock^^) for next summer! It was one of the best books I've read! I think I died when Jamie asked if demons had disco fever, omg! hahahaha
Well, I just wanted you to know, and keep up everything good you've been doing, because I have to know what happens next!
Aug. 26th, 2009 08:14 pm (UTC)
*beams* Thank you so much for telling me you liked it - I am always nervous about whether people will, and thrilled when they do! (Plus I have book two's final edits in front of me right now, so you are helping to motivate me. :))
Aug. 26th, 2009 03:26 pm (UTC)
I found your essay via a link on some other LJ, and quite enjoyed reading it. Good food for thought, especially the Harriet Potter part. I had wondered about whether I'd have liked the Harry Potter books as much if Harry had been a girl before, which kind of shocked me. I kept that in the back of my mind when I recently read the Inkworld Trilogy by Cornelia Funke (whose main character Meggie is a 13 year old girl, in case you don't know these books), since critics over here in Germany sometimes ventured to call these books "the german Harry Potter" (yeah, you wish :P).

I was somewhat relieved to find that I liked Meggie as a main character as much as I had liked Harry, if not even more, and I sometimes feel it's kind of a pity that the Inkworld Trilogy didn't get as crazily popular as Harry Potter. However, that's probably simply because it was written in German, and not because the main character is a girl. ;)

Oh, and I loved Uhura in the movie, because she actually seemed like the smart person she has to be to serve on a ship like the Enterprise, and not just like the 'token woman' they needed.
Aug. 26th, 2009 04:45 pm (UTC)
Awesome post, thank you.
Aug. 26th, 2009 05:18 pm (UTC)
I was devastated
I was so unhappy when Jo turned Laurie down in Little Women... Even more unhappy when Laurie married Amy! I have never found anyone who agreed with me before. I'm sure it's a very common opinion, but all my friends just like to quote marmee at me "they're too similar blah blah blah".

But yeah, I really like this essay I agree 100%. :)
Aug. 26th, 2009 06:42 pm (UTC)
Re: I was devastated
Oh, it's an extremely common opinion: in fact, it was common while she was writing. The first half of Little Women was released before the second half, and readers were shipping Jo/Laurie like whoa. L.M. Alcott said, "I won’t marry Jo to Laurie to please anybody!"
Re: I was devastated - (Anonymous) - Aug. 26th, 2009 09:10 pm (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 26th, 2009 05:39 pm (UTC)
Oh god, so true. The sheer level of misogyny that women throw at other women absolutely dismays me, and the stupidly high standards that society and/or fans put on female characters are ridiculous.

It's all made even worse by how many people are ready to crucify a female character if she has intrests/emotions/etc that are seen as "female". She likes makeup and pretty clothes? Shallow! She'd rather bake than kick ass? Bitch! She has more than one love intrest? Mary Sue! She cries? Weakling! She wants to have a husband and/or kids? Babymaker! She wears sexy clothes? Whore! AND ALL OF THSE ARE BAD EXAMPLES FOR GIRLS! Well, it's true that many times these are often shown rather... flawedly, but having intrests that aren't centered on archtypically male stuff isn't a sin, huh.

All in all? Great essay! Thanks for the read!
Aug. 26th, 2009 06:44 pm (UTC)
I have a main female character who is homophobic, likes very pretty things, and wants to get married and have kids. Now, she may get a free pass because she was raised in Regency England, but I'm terrified that readers are going to overlook her compassion and intelligence and bookishness and sense of fun and sense of justice, to see only the homophobia and the liking of pretty clothes and the desire to settle down and have kids, pretty much because of this. It's a catch-22; if you're badass in sterotypically male interests, you are a Mary Sue, but if you're badass in sterotypically female interests, you are a bad example. Wasn't the entire point of feminism to give us choices?
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Aug. 26th, 2009 06:45 pm (UTC)
I kind of needed to hear this. I'll tell you why another time. ♥ q
Aug. 26th, 2009 06:49 pm (UTC)
I hope everything is okay?
Aug. 26th, 2009 06:47 pm (UTC)
Awesome essay, I really enjoyed it.

Just wanted to ask if you've ever read any Kelley Armstrong books? She has three series at the moment, and two of them have extremely kickass female characters. One of the series is actually called 'Women of the Otherworld' and it's about women of various supernatural races (werewolves, witches, necromancers, demons to name a few). The other series has a main character of a female hitman and she holds her own against the guys in the book.
Aug. 26th, 2009 06:56 pm (UTC)
I love Kelley Armstrong's books! My favourites are her YA Darkest Powers series, I wrote up reviews for them here and here - I love the deconstruction of her damsel-in-distress heroine. I'm also a fan of Dimestore Magic, with its romance based on shared love of books and knowledge.
Aug. 26th, 2009 07:23 pm (UTC)
But there's another question, and that's the audience: I do think all of us tend to be harder on women, even if the women in question are awesome. This is totally natural - the society we live in has plenty of issues about the ladies, and sometimes we don't even know we're being influenced.

I think this is so right. I can't count how many times people have come out of the theatre with me, women and gone on about how great the male characters were, but how the female ones didn't live up to their expectations. I remember even reading the Twilight books and wondering why the hell Bella was getting so much crap for being a Mary Sue type character, when Edward was farting glitter out of his ass.

It's just such a double standard. When really, I would die to see a Jamie Kirk type character - I think that would be entertaining as hell to have that kind of male stereotype switched over to a woman (because I've met that woman, and hell yeah she's awesome).

This essay is fantastic, I'm going to pimp it out on my own journal. You just basically wrote down everything I think about and really good points a lot of people (even well educated women) don't.
Aug. 26th, 2009 07:54 pm (UTC)
femme fatales & noir
You know...you've really given me food for thought. I'm in the middle of writing my novel, which has a female protagonist (and magic! and gods! wheeeee!), and after reading this I just realized that my heroine has no female friends who don't betray her in some way. Now why is that? I have awesome and amazing female friends who have not betrayed me. How easily I've fallen into that trope. Sheesh. Will have to do some rethinking, methinks. Thank you for this great post (forwarded to me by the amazing writer Gemma Files/handful-of-dust).

Aug. 26th, 2009 08:24 pm (UTC)
Good essay, and I wish I had the time to read all the insightful comments as well. No such luck.

Just wanted to throw in the name of a book that features two truly awesome female protagonists: "Racing the Moon" by Terry Prone, whom you might know for being a famous Irish PR person, manager, and writer. It's one of my favourites because I can actually identify with both women, and they are kick-ass women even without the ninja gear.

Amazon link to the novel
Aug. 26th, 2009 08:39 pm (UTC)
I'd just like to state that despite being a die hard fan of Kirk/Spock, I do love Uhura. And I found the idea of Uhura/Spock very appealing. Also, I love the way she is in the film. It's hard for me to see why so many people hate her. So she is really good at something (and passionate about it, too) and happens to have a chance to prove it. But it seems to me she is not the only one, so why hate her and not the entire crew, starting with Kirk? So I guess it must really be because she gets to snog Spock. ;) Of course, personally, I'd rather see Kirk snog Spock, but since that wasn't really gonna happen, I'd say Uhura's a pretty good substitute. Well, the only possible substitute if they wanted someone to snog Spock. ;)
Well, having said that, I must admit to one instance of having very negative feelings towards a female character just because she was the one the hero chose. I'm talking about Ginny.
I do not entirely understand what makes me like Uhura and dislike Ginny. One of my friends said they are a lot alike. Maybe so, but for me one is really awesome and the other not at all. Am I too hard on Ginny? I'd not say so. It's likely I just missed her awesomeness. Though, I have a theory I simply do not like her out of pure spite. Maybe Rowling one too many times indicated who we should and shouldn't like in her interviews. ;)

Anyway, it's a great essay, and it made me remember all the wonderful female characters I happened to meet in books, films and TV shows. And there were quite a lot.

Ah, and I may be isolated in that opinion, but I totally despise Edward Rochester. I'd like to punch him very hard. Twice.
Aug. 26th, 2009 08:49 pm (UTC)
Linked here by metafandom.

What is such a shame is that they cut out Number One (she was supposed to be Pike's XO) in ST!Reboot because dude, that woman is made of golden awesome. Just look at her name!

As for not liking Harriet Potter, I must confess that I was not terribly fond of Harry to begin with.

If you're looking for awesome ladies on TV, you could try Criminal Minds - they do a pretty good job of fleshing out the female characters and all of them pull (more than) their weight when it comes to the teamwork.

There's also a jdrama called Boss with a female chief detective kicking ass and taking names while being so much smarter than her sexist male superiors.
Aug. 26th, 2009 10:11 pm (UTC)
Oooh, and there's a good TOS series episode to check out: The Menagerie, which has serious Disability!Fail but a) was made in the 60s b) has generous amounts of Spock being awesome and c) has Captain Pike and Number One.
Aug. 26th, 2009 10:30 pm (UTC)
Women do tend to be blamed for their irresistible allure. How may times have you heard "well she wants to be noticed or she wouldn't dress that way," or "it's her fault for looking that way." I've heard this justification for everything from flirtation to sexual harassment to rape, as if men who make these comments aren't responsible for their own actions and impulses. In lieu of this, there seems to be a latent belief that, while it's not okay, rape is kind of a natural consequence of being a woman. Like, 'yeah that was really wrong, but what are you gonna do?" Whereas if, hypothetically, a renowned, I don't know, pop star, or a catholic priest is purported to have molested young boys, there's a national outcry.

However, for their part, I think men face a far more insidious, if far less brutal, inequity. While women are often judged, rejected, marginalized based on appearance and sex appeal, they are loved, coddled, and doted upon for the very same thing. Being praised and accepted as a little girl is as easy twirling in a tutu, but a boy has to be smart, or athletic, or otherwise engaging. He can't just sit back and rake in the love, he has to earn it. Therefore, though women have to fight for respect and recognition, they've grown up with an innate feeling of acceptance. How many of those male characters, Heathcliff, Rochester, Harry Potter, experience that security? How many of them, regardless of their success or even popularity, feel instead like they are facing off against the entire world?

In fiction, the male characters who rely on the more feminine of their wiles - their looks, their manners, their charm - are portrayed as the least reliable, but most emotionally stable of their manly man contemporaries. (Wickham: confident that he is beloved by all. Darcy: can't take a joke, and thinks he can insult people into marrying him.) In the end, women are judged more harshly as characters, but as people, in the real world or the world of their fiction, they are better loved.
Aug. 26th, 2009 10:51 pm (UTC)
I'm not arguing that boys don't face pressures to be athletic and smart - I know that they do. But what on earth is 'acceptance' worth without respect and recognition? What if the girl twirling in the tutu is overweight, or clumsy, or doesn't want to twirl?

I'm not even sure what you mean by acceptance in this context. Admiration for good looks? Guys get that too, just as women often feel pressure to be smart, or even athletic (and of course conversely in some cases have to struggle against greater obstacles to prove they are smart, or athletic). And even if some conventionally attractive women do feel like all they have to do to be loved is be pretty, that's not a situation that's good for anyone's self-esteem.

You do make a good point about male characters who rely on traditionally more feminine things like charm and manners seeming happier and more confident. Though the fact such characters are untrustworthy probably reflects suspicion for people who will cross the boundaries of strictly defined gender roles, it's interesting to speculate that this portrayal possibly comes from observation that both men and women who do cross such boundaries tend to be happier and more secure.

Edited at 2009-08-26 10:52 pm (UTC)
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Aug. 26th, 2009 10:34 pm (UTC)
Actually, Uhura in the series was also awesome- and largely because she didn't have a steady love interest. She occasionally flirted with guys, but at least half the time she was doing it to save someone's life. She was also always acknowledged as being brilliant at her job, which is still so incredibly rare.

I watched taped copies of the series in the early nineties from when they were reruns in the eighties. And she was one of the strongest feminist role models I had. And she was from the sixties. How sad is that?
Aug. 26th, 2009 10:37 pm (UTC)
She does sound great, but as discussed in the post about Uhura I linked to there were some very unsavoury reasons for her to be single in the series, which make me happy she has a love interest in the movie.

Luckily the awesome at her job carried over, which I agree we should see lots of everywhere!
(no subject) - quinfirefrorefiddle.dreamwidth.org - Aug. 26th, 2009 11:47 pm (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2009 02:37 am (UTC)
I came over here from poisontaster's link. Thanks for this thoughtful and thought-provoking piece.

I'm a huge Supernatural fan, but I would never try to deny that the show has done a truly terrible job with women characters. I think this...

probably people don't want to get girls wrong, because it's easy to get girls wrong,

...is probably a huge reason. Another fanfiction writer and I were recently discussing this, how much easier it is to write men because overall their motivations are very simple: they want to eat, sleep, fuck and fight, in roughly that order. (I'm oversimplifying and generalizing here, of course.) Female characters generally act in ways that don't seem to make sense for complex reasons that may or may not be apparent on the surface. They hold grudges forever, for instance.

Ritin' girlz iz hard.
Aug. 27th, 2009 03:05 am (UTC)
This was absolutely wonderful. I have been trying to (a) read through all the comments (which, at the bottom of the second page, I have decided is not possible for me), and (b) think of something to add to this/say about it. I was reminded of one of my all-time favorite books: Ender's Game. I don't know if you've read it (though if you haven't I will be including spoilers in this comment so there's that), but I think it would probably suffer from having too few female characters to be to your liking. Also, I apologize in advance if someone has already brought this up in comments on the many pages I haven't read.

There are hardly any girls in the Battle School with Ender. In fact, there's only one who is mentioned by name (in my memory, at least), and she's certainly the only one to be of any importance at all. Her name is Petra, she's a little older than Ender and becomes one of his few friends when, unlike the other boys at Battle School, she takes pity on him. She sort of takes on a motherly/sisterly role and teaches him, but she's still tough (she has to be), and at first I thought she was really awesome for being tough enough to be a GIRL. In BATTLE SCHOOL. And she's good, too--she gets to be the commander of an army and eventually makes her way into Ender's final team. She has to work that much harder for being a girl, and she does it. It bothered me that she was the ONLY girl, but at least she was good at what she was doing.

I also thought, well, at least it's stated outright that there aren't really too many girls at Battle School, rather than just having the one hanging around with no explanation as to where the others are. You know, it's like the military, a real boys' club, and that's something you just have to accept in order to enjoy the story--in fact, I think it's a really integral part of the story. But at least Petra's there, even if she is the Token Girl.

And then she breaks down when fighting. Then, when she comes back after having some rest and taking some time to recover, she's never quite as sure of herself, and she's basically useless to Ender. Ender's pushing everybody so hard and so far that of course someone's going to break down--but did it have to be the GIRL? That always sort of got to me. The fact that these are all just CHILDREN fighting this war, being trained to be brutal and to kill and to go on no sleep and just go harder and harder all the time--and the one who can't take it, who becomes the weak link, is the one female character we've seen who managed to infiltrate this world.

I also can't help but think about how tough it must have been for her to hang out in that boys' club. I'd love to know more about her as a more real, well-rounded character (not that she's one-dimensional, it's just that she's sort of a minor character). Apparently she has a larger role in some of the other books in the Bean series which I haven't read, so I don't know.

Of course, there's also Ender's sister Val, who is awesome in the (progressively worse) Speaker for the Dead and its sequels. I love Val, but the whole reason Ender exists is kind of predicated on Femininity is Weakness: the first child, Peter, was too evil to get the job done, so they made a female version of him, which was Val. But Val was then too compassionate, which made her unsuitable. So they tried again, and this time they got it right--with the next boy.

Lastly: I've seen a couple of comments on Havemercy (another boys' club!), and I just want to note: didn't the authors say that the Dragon Corps' reactions to Thom was based on studies done about firefighters accepting women into their ranks for the first time, and the awful treatment those women received? While I know that's not the point you were making, and the lack of female characters is definitely an issue, I think that the authors do a really good job of showing how even a man can be left out of an all-male world.
Aug. 30th, 2009 09:46 pm (UTC)
Girl Genius icon ftw <3
Aug. 27th, 2009 03:58 am (UTC)
My dear Sarah,

I must tell you. I just finished reading your book.

I am, first of all, wary of online writers (as a general rule). Second, I consider myself (somewhat dispassionately, I'll have to admit) unsurprisable when it comes to books.

HOWEVER! You! Have proved me! Wrong! On so! so! so! many counts! (and so many exclamation points... that can't be healthy.)

I wasn't just surprised by the ending, I was surprised by all of the little tidbits and true natures of the characters! Alan shocked me when they were in Merris' house; Jamie shocked me! Nick's total character re-vamping shocked me not once, not twice, but thrice. Thrice! The plot was well thought-out, the surprises fit perfectly but weren't obvious... ah! It was lovely! Also, relating to this post: I kept noticing that each of your characters were very round - Nick wasn't just self-preserving, he cares about Alan (in his way), the whole tensions with his mother, and everything that has to do with Mae and Jamie. Then the dad bit.. man.

*clears throat* All in all, I have to say, I am impressed, I am pleased, and I am very happy that your book is published so that everyone can read it and realize what an amazing author you are.

If I were a cheerleader, I'm pretty sure I'd come up with some pom pom and short skirt routine in your honor. :) Keep writing!
Oct. 12th, 2009 07:43 am (UTC)
I never said thank you for this comment but wow, thank you.
Aug. 27th, 2009 04:41 am (UTC)
Loved the essay. I was sad ;) to see you blame Laurie for giving up on Jo in favor of the younger, cuter, more sophisticated, blander Amy. My reading was, it wasn't Laurie's fault! He had to move on in life as Jo made it eminently clear that there was no way in hell she was going to take him on. Made me kinda sad, actually, for them both, but Jo got what she wanted, and she didn't want to go out of her comfort zone into lady-of-the-manor. Amy was an acceptable substitute for the rejected Laurie, and she had her own assets as a woman, to be sure, although not the brilliant, loveable quirkiness of Jo.
Aug. 27th, 2009 05:01 am (UTC)
Re: Laurie
I look at Amy from a writer's perspective, though - after she burned Jo's manuscript she was dead to me. Far as I was concerned, Laurie had the world to choose from and married the one who liked puppy blood in her Cheerios.
Re: Laurie - jenncatt - Sep. 19th, 2009 06:56 pm (UTC) - Expand
Aug. 27th, 2009 06:48 am (UTC)
Also here from poisontaster's link.

There's some good discussion of the Bechdel test in relation to movies on the blog I Blame the Patriarchy.


I haven't seen a discussion of it related to written fiction before, though, so thanks for that.

I had the weird experience recently of trying to find the non-slut side of Dean Winchester, and pretty much concluding that his character was the most feminist thing about the show. The essay I wrote then got a fair amount of comment along the lines of "how dare you sully the good name of feminism by suggesting this character is feminist?" To which one of my (previously unwritten) responses is "kudos for being such a right-on feminist, but if you feel so strongly about the purity of the feminist cause that you don't think I should have made this argument, how on earth can you still be watching Supernatural?"

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Sarah Rees Brennan
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